Here’s the second installment in our “five minutes with David Powlison” series (you can access the first one here).

I asked David to elaborate on this quote:

I have yet to meet a couple locked in hostility (and the accompanying fear, self-pity, hurt, self-righteousness) who really understood and reckoned with their motives. James 4:1–3 teaches that cravings underlie conflicts. Why do you fight? It’s not “because of my wife/husband…”—it’s because of something about you. Couples who see what rules them—cravings for affection, attention, power, vindication, control, comfort, a hassle-free life—can repent and find God’s grace made real to them, and then learn how to make peace.

—Seeing with New Eyes (P&R, 2003), p. 151.

To hear David expand on this quote, download the 7-minute audio recording here (5.9 MB) or listen online: