Welcome to the fourth and final part of my interview with biblical counselor and author Dr. David Powlison.
David, what single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your leadership?
The shepherd must know that he is one of the Shepherd’s needy and
beloved sheep: 2 Corinthians 1:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12–13. You can best
give to others the very things that you are receiving and living.
Where in ministry are you most regularly tempted to discouragement?
I don’t tend to get discouraged in ministry. I think that I was
convinced early on that evil is incomprehensibly deep and tangled, and
that life is shadowed by death. The fewer the illusions, the less prone
to disillusionment. Jesus came for all this sin and suffering,
continues to enter in with light, mercy and power into imperfect and
broken lives, will return to make right all that is wrong. “Tis mercy
all, immense and free….”
Kyrie eleison.
I do get discouraged simply as a man, by my own shortcomings,
lovelessness, and weakness/
astheneia. But time after time the place of
discouragement has become the door for the mercies of Jesus to delight
and refresh me.
Today, as I’m doing this written interview for CJ, I’m nearing the 3
week mark of a post-surgical recovery period. I’ve been quite slowed by
the pain and fatigue. The process has been disheartening at times. But
the very act of doing this interview (something that was not on my
project list—see question above!) has brought me back to basics and
invigorated me, helping restore me to the mindset of work and ministry.
Do you exercise? If so, what do you do? If not, why not? (Please be specific.)
I exercise by walking outdoors in some part of God’s creation where I
can observe something beautiful—stream, field, tree, cloud, bird,
light, rain, snow, mountain…. My physical exercise includes a major
aesthetic component. (This is also part of how I answer the question
below, about leisure). Sometimes I throw in a few sets of pushups or
wind sprints to get the pulse racing and the muscles burning.
Currently, what sport do you like to play and/or watch?
Injuries and aging have pretty much put an end to sports. I loved
surfing, basketball, football, softball, distance running, competitive
swimming, cross-country skiing. I still occasionally do a little kayak
surfing or boogie-boarding (when I visit my family in Hawaii), or some
skiing (when we get 4" or more of snow).
On TV I’ll watch a little of all the major sports, when it comes to
playoffs and championships. And every four years I watch swimming and
track during the Olympics.
What do you do for leisure?
Among the highlights are hiking (both with Nan and alone), reading good
fiction, cross-country skiing or kayaking (when opportunity presents),
and playing with my granddaughter. I find that a half an hour of
something both absorbingly mindful and mindlessly forgetful—a card game
on my Palm Pilot, a computer strategy game, the Sunday crossword
puzzle—can be refreshing. I love the ritual of reading the newspaper
over a cup of coffee.
If you were not in ministry, what occupational path would you have chosen?
God made me to do what I am doing, shaping every aspect of both gifts
and life experience. If I had to do some other job in order to support
myself and my family, I’d do any honorable work as an occupation in
order to enable my vocation in ministry. For me, doing ministry came
with becoming a Christian.
If I had not become a Christian, I’m not sure what I would have done. I
was never occupation-oriented. In fact, I was intensely alienated even
from the idea of an occupation, and came close to becoming a dropout
from society. I was repelled by the degree to which people sought
personal identity and meaning from their occupation and achievements.
My only aspiration had been to write honest and beautiful poetry, song
lyrics, and fiction (not the most promising of occupations). I would
likely have ended up either as a derelict or, if I’d stayed functional
in society, as one of Thoreau’s “The mass of men lead lives of quiet
desperation.”
[Added by Dr. Powlison]
What one further question should C.J. be asking?
Who are your closest personal friends (outside your family)? What role do they play in your life and ministry?
Four men have been in my life through many years (40, 30, 20, and 15
years, respectively). We are honest with each other—a track record of
loving concern creates a depth of basic trust and immediate honesty. We
hold each other to Jesus Christ. We pray with and for each other. I
need the mutual give and take, the simplicity of caring and candor both
given and received.
Here’s a quotation that captures it for me: “Those who lack friends to
open themselves unto are cannibals of their own hearts….This
communicating of a man’s self to his friends works two contrary
effects; for it redoubles joys and cuts griefs in half.” (Francis
Bacon, “Of Friendship,” 1625)
Thank you, David!